用这个框架作为弱者获得关注 | Lulu Cheng Meservey
Gain attention as an underdog with this framework | Lulu Cheng Meservey
Finding Your Audience’s Cultural Nerve
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I often say to find your audience’s cultural erogenous zones. So what it means is people have things that they either care about or don’t, and you’re not going to change that. So it’s a huge lift to try to change someone’s worldview or their passions. It’s a light lift to take the thing you want to talk about and just shape it into, to fit into their worldview or their passions. There’s not always a fit.
There’s going to be people who are just not your natural audience, and you should know that and not waste your time. But if your natural audience cares about X and you’re offering Y, then it’s your job to create the API or to create the bridge from X to Y. With messaging, it’s not build it and they will come. It is so hard and you’d have to be superhumanly gifted to the extent that I can’t recall seeing in my entire life, where you create a message and a story so powerful that someone who didn’t care at all before suddenly makes that their passion. It’s so much easier to take what they’re passionate about and understand it, and then convince them that if they care about that then they should care about your thing because of this connection.
What Makes Ideas Spread
Lenny: Welcome to Lenny’s Podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard won experiences building and growing today’s most successful products. Today, my guest is Lulu Meservey. I met Lulu while she was head of comms at Substack, where she was infamous for taking big risks and bold stands, and as a result creating a lot of attention for Substack, and other companies she’s represented. Lulu is definitely the most innovative and interesting comms person I’ve worked with.
She’s currently executive vice president of corporate affairs and chief communications officer at Activision Blizzard. And she writes what I’d say is the best newsletter on PR and comms strategy, a newsletter called Flack. In our conversation we get tactical about how to make your idea spread, cultural erogenous zones, the growing importance of going direct versus relying on traditional media. The importance of taking risks in your comms and much more. Lulu is so insightful, I could have continued to explore the subject for hours. Enjoy this episode with Lulu Meservey after a short word from our sponsors.
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Lulu Cheng Meservey: Thank you Lenny. Great to be here.
Practical Examples of the Framework
Lenny: I am really excited to chat all things comms and PR. I’ve never met a founder or product leader who doesn’t want to get better at spreading ideas and getting their product out there, and you’re very good at this. We’re going to talk about some of the things you’ve done in the space. But just to start maybe just broadly I’m curious to hear just what have you learned about what helps an idea spread?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: So there’s a few ways to make the idea spread, the overall principle is you have to make it memorable and you have to make people want to say it of their own volition. And so what doesn’t make them want to say it is doing a favor for a corporation. What does make them want to say it is they want to bring joy to somebody else, they want to make somebody laugh, they want to appear interesting, or they want to project some part of their identity. And so a few things that you can do with an idea to make it spread better, you can make it into a joke, so you can turn it into a line that people will repeat. You can use an analogy, you can take something and just say it over and over, move fast and break things, don’t be evil, build something people want.
You can create a mental image that is very colorful. So I have a mental image for people that I use a lot, which is put the pill in some cheese and we can talk about it later, it’s about how to craft a story that will stick. But when I say put the pill in cheese, people tend to remember that and it’s more easily repeatable. And then the last thing is use a story, use an anecdote instead of using adjectives because adjectives are so subjective, they’re meaningless to people. So if you give them a story that’s something they can repeat over the dinner table.
How to Craft Viral Phrases
Lenny: Do you have any examples of the frameworks you just shared? So you talked about maybe having an analogy or putting the pill in the cheese, which I think is referring to when you feed a dog a pill. You want to hide the pill in the cheese. Is there any stories or examples that come to mind of this in action either something you’ve done or other companies you’ve seen?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: One example not for the better is binders of women. You remember when Mitt Romney said binders of women and it just absolutely caught on like wildfire, and it’s because you can picture the binder, it’s a hilarious mental image. You make lots of jokes about it. It’s a very specific unusual phrasing that is very repeatable, and it lends itself so much to memeing. So it’s not something that they wanted to have happen, which is a word of caution, this can backfire on you as well, but that’s an example. I mentioned move fast and break things, software is eating the world, it’s time to build. Those are these short phrases that take normal words and put them in an unusual order, and then especially if you repeat them a few times they just become very sticky.
Examples of Viral Content Fails
Lenny: These things sound really smart and wise after the fact, do you have any advice on just how to… So we’re talking about coming up with a cool phrase that’ll spread of how to do that. I don’t know what have you seen work for coming up with move fast and break things, how would a founder approach that?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: You want to make it something that a second-grader could understand. You want to minimize the cognitive burden on the recipient. So it should be something where they’re not having to expend any extra energy understanding the thing, where it immediately paints a picture. Or if you were to make a joke, it has to be a joke that they immediately get, or it’s a very widely understood reference. You don’t want it to be this inside joke with yourself that other people might get if you explain it to them. So if you were to boil down the essence of let’s say your company or your mission, get it to one sentence and then turn it into a sentence that you could explain to a second-grader, and then cleanse it of all cliches and common parlance. And if you can then turn that into an analogy or if you can make it into something that has imagery, then you’re probably 80, 90% of the way there.
Why Communicators Should Take Risks
Lenny: So you’ve definitely done this on Twitter. It might be fun just to share a tweet or something of yours that has done this that has spread like crazy. I noticed you delete your old tweets, which I think is really smart and I should probably do that. So I couldn’t find any examples, but I remember just being like, “Holy shit, it’s got a bazillion views.” Is there there an example that comes to mind that you could share? Just share something you put out that just went crazy.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I actually have a negative example too. I think it’s useful to share my mistakes or missteps in addition to what went right, because there’s more mistakes and missteps than what goes right. In general, you try a bunch of things every once in a while they succeed. But I think it’s useful to think about what didn’t land. And so one of mine was when you might remember this because this was the Substack era, when we were taking a lot of incoming for not censoring enough, and we took a stand that we want to encourage free expression. I was actually on maternity leave, so I was a little bit out of the loop, but I wanted to jump in there and support the cause. And so I did a thread about why we’re standing by this principle even when it’s hard, and the thread was pretty well received, it traveled a lot.
I think it was 30 something thousand likes among people that we cared about, people who write on the internet. And then there was one tweet in the thread where I said something like, “Doing this isn’t pleasant, but neither for that matter is the sea.” Completely esoteric reference, it was fresh in my mind because it was from a New Yorker book review where in that context it was poetic and evocative and beautiful. And I did the thing you’re not supposed to do, which is take an inside joke with yourself and release it into the world.
And that one tweet was a dud in the middle of the thread where you could see the likes drop off precipitously and people were like, “What are you talking about?” And then afterwards I looked at it with fresh eyes, “Yeah, this makes no sense whatsoever out of a context.” And also I’m not a New York book reviewer, so that was a good don’t. But the fact that it was such a colorful metaphor actually caught people’s attention in an accidental way. I didn’t mean for it too. I guess that’s a don’t, does that serve as an example?
Content That Resonates With Everyone
Lenny: Yeah, that’ll work and we’ll go through other examples. But that’s a good segue to something I was going to save for later, but it may be a good time to chat about is just something that you’re big on is this concept of taking risks as a comms person, I think you have the sense that comms people are just very conservative, and there’s a big opportunity to get a little out there. And in this case maybe it didn’t work out, other times you have and it has. So just talk about that philosophy you have around taking risks.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I think if you’re a startup your enemy is the status quo. And when you don’t take risks, when you minimize risk by doing nothing, the best way to minimize risk is to do nothing. You’re letting the status quo win. You’re letting your greatest enemy and rival and threat to your business win by default, because you’re not even going to try to compete. And so I always encourage people to try to make mistakes of commission rather than omission. Because if you make a mistake of commission you can observe it, you can learn from it. You know right away that it’s happened. You can move really quickly and adapt and become better.
Whereas if you make mistakes of omission you’re letting status quo win, you’re not observing, you’re not learning, and you’re maybe not even noticing opportunities slip by. So the example that I use, again, an analogy to make it more memorable, my analogy for this is if you are investing money in the market versus if you’re just sitting in cash. If you’re sitting in cash you won’t lose your money and it feels safe. But over time the world moves and the market grows, and everybody else is getting richer and you’re getting poorer in real terms. Whereas if you make an investment it’ll go up and down, there’ll be some volatility. It’s not just going to go up every day, but over the long run you’ll be much, much better off.
How Underdog Companies Gain Attention
Lenny: Is there an example of something you did that you took a risk and it worked out, or you saw someone else do this really well?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: The stand for free speech thread would be a risk that worked out. It was a risk because it was a topic that a lot of people were already mad about, which will happen with every topic that matters. It felt a little risky for me because I was on leave, I wasn’t really in the middle of things. I was addled already, so I had at least one thing in there that was nonsensical. So there was the execution risk of would I’d be able to do this well.
There was also the risk of you poke your head up and make a thing where there wasn’t a thing, and if that were to go wrong and embarrass the company or if that had made Chris or Hamish or Jerraj upset, that would’ve been upsetting to me and obviously a failure of my job. So that was a risk that I took and we took and they were supportive, and it did work out because the people who were most likely to write on Substack generally appreciate that stance.
I actually have one more for you Lenny when you asked about what are things that help stick in people’s memory, there was the fail example of the sea analogy. I think a useful example that works is I often say to find your audience’s cultural erogenous zones, and it is something that you immediately know what I’m talking about. If I say know your audience’s cultural erogenous zones, you know what it means, it’s a shorthand that everybody understands. It’s not an inside joke with myself, and it’s something that is unusual and upraising that you’re going to repeat it and hopefully remember it, so there’s one for you.
The Concentric Circles Framework
Lenny: You told me about that framework and I definitely wanted to hear more about it. What does that mean and is there something that you’ve seen someone do that’s just like, “Wow, they really nailed this erogenous zone approach.”
Driving the Concentric Circles Framework
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yeah, they really got it in the erogenous bull bullseye. So what it means is people have things that they either care about or don’t, and you’re not going to change that. So it’s a huge lift to try to change someone’s worldview or their passions. It’s a light lift to take the thing you want to talk about and just shape it into, to fit into their worldview or their passions. There’s not always a fit.
There’s going to be people who are just not your natural audience, and you should know that and not waste your time. But if your natural audience cares about X and you’re offering Y, then it’s your job to create the API or to create the bridge from X to Y. With messaging, it’s not build it and they will come. It is so hard and you’d have to be superhumanly gifted to the extent that I can’t recall seeing in my entire life, where you create a message and a story so powerful that someone who didn’t care at all before suddenly makes that their passion. It’s so much easier to take what they’re passionate about and understand it, and then convince them that if they care about that then they should care about your thing because of this connection.
Lenny: This makes me think about one of the other tweets that I think went crazy, which is where you share the things you’re muting on Twitter. Where it’s like the threads thimble and the pointing down thing, and it feels like that’s exactly that where people are just like, “Yep, this is me.”
Why You Can’t Skip Any Circle
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yeah, it is that. I have an example for you Lenny. The one that my mind goes to is when Kamala Harris was running for Senate. Put aside what anyone thinks of Kamala Harris as a politician or if you agree with her politics, it doesn’t matter. When she was running for Senate, she had this example where not enough people care about K-12 education. It’s not a sexy topic and only moms care about it, whereas people cared a lot and still do about national defense, national security.
And so she said the way to get their attention is you go to people who care about national security and you tell them, “Did you know that in order to enlist for the army you have to have a 10th grade reading level?” If you can’t read at that level, you’re not going to be able to read the army field manual. And so if you care about the future of national defense and being able to maintain a standing army, you need to care about middle grade reading standards. So that’s a perfect example, and in fact it stuck with me such that many years later I’m still repeating it to you.
Practical Template for Concentric Circles
Lenny: Something else that I think what you teach helps with is underdogs coming up against incumbent companies, giving them a chance to stand out. Like Substack I think is a good example where you just helped elevate Substack on the world stage in a lot of ways. What have you found works best for underdog startups and companies trying to get attention?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: First, you have to acknowledge that you’re the underdog, and you’re not going to use the GE playbook from the 1980s or whatever. So acknowledging that means knowing that you’re not going to play the game that requires you to have more resources, more and deeper relationships, and institutional backings, and to be able to draft off of the current narrative. So all of those things are going to be not in your favor. If you’re a startup for example, by definition you’re trying to disrupt something, you’re trying to do something differently, you’re fighting the status quo. And if that’s the case then you can’t rely on maybe the government, maybe mainstream media to support what you’re doing. And so you should assume that you want to go with an approach that doesn’t require a lot of money or people, that doesn’t require that institutional backing and those relationships.
That means building your own distribution, which you can do starting from day one. You can start doing that before you even have the company. It means taking your story and winning hearts and minds. Number one, by making it a story that you shape to fit people’s cultural erogenous zones of your audience. And number two, by finding the centers of gravity in society, like the influencers that are going to help spread it for you. Because you’re not going to on day one call up the New York Times and get them to print the story that you want them to. So you need to figure out who are the influencers and the way to do that, I’ll cut off the rabbit hole after this because you can just go deeper and deeper, but the way to do that is in concentric circles. There’s a general who said if there’s a problem I look for it in concentric circles going back to my own desk.
If you want to spread something you go out in concentric circles starting from your own desk. So you need to get first really clear with yourself about what your message is and just get really crisp with it. This is hard to do because you know too much, so out of the 1,000 facts in your head you’re going to have to pick just between one and three. And then the next circle is going to be your co-founders, your executives, your employees, your investors, you go to your power users, and you go out from there, and it has to be in that sequence.
But once you get the sequence and you identify who the people are and you know who your audience is, and then you’re able to hone in on what their cultural erogenous zones are, then you’re able to craft the message, have the delivery mechanisms, and then know your target, and then you’re off. But you just need to do that exercise upfront, so you don’t have a lot of wasted motion.
Real Examples of Cultural Nerves
Lenny: I really like this concentric circle framework. I haven’t heard this before. Just to make it a little more real is there something that you can share, something that comes to mind that illustrates that?
The Math Formula for Spreading
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Well, you and I have talked a lot about Substack, so I’m speaking out of term now that I don’t have the employee badge. But something that I thought the Substack founders have always done so well is propagate product updates out in concentric circles. So there’s a lot of things where you’re going to know about it. You, Lenny will know about it more than a new writer who just joined, because you’re a power user of the product and they would want you… Now they would want to make sure that you love the thing, and that you feel maybe even a little bit invested in the thing. You’ve been telling people about recommendations for nearly a year. No one asked you to do that. We didn’t pay you to do that. You’ve done it because you were brought on board early and it was something that the company made sure that you liked, and then you became the next circle out that spread it to your next circle out.
Lenny: It’s interesting because I didn’t think of it as an intentional strategy to get news out, and it feels like there’s a synergy with just talking to your power users. Getting feedback from your power users leads to this interesting second order effect where they also want to… they feel like they’re on the inside of something, they want to share it and maybe talk about it and tell friends about, “Hey, Substack’s working this cool thing.” So that’s kind of a cool-
Pressure Formula: Narrow Focus, Maximize Impact
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Well, early on Lenny you asked about how do you get a message to spread? And I said you give people incentives who want to spread it. So your incentive was you helping others, you like paying it forward and helping other writers and podcasters, and you genuinely enjoy the thing. And I think there’s some value to your own project that you get to show social proof that a lot of people like this thing and it’s growing, and that’s what you got. If it had been like, “Hey, Lenny, can you do us a favor and tweet this thing?” You might’ve done it, but you would’ve done it once and stopped and it wouldn’t have been something that you organically keep doing.
Case Study: Balaji’s The Network State
Lenny: To make this even more real I’m trying to help people understand this concentric circle idea, so first Substack is an example. What would be the few layers of the concentric circle on the middle would be maybe the power writers. What would be the next couple layers?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: It’s the employees at the middle, almost always, and then it is depending on the company. So here it would be the power writers, it’s youth, a lot of the original writers. Bill Bishop comes up a lot, he was Substacker number one, he’s always really meaningful. And then it’s fast growing writers. It is writer influencers. There are certain members of the media that cover media and writing, and so they matter a lot. And then investors are in there just to keep close to the fold.
But if you’re a different kind of company that might be employees board, institutional investors, government and regulators then users, just depending on how much power each group has to influence your future. And the reason I say go out in concentric circles as opposed to just hit each of these groups kind of haphazardly is that’s your way to control the message. Because each circle is going to assume that the inner circle knows better than them and they’re going to follow the lead of the inner circle. So an example is if you and I have a company, Lenny and Lulu, this is a DTC startup.
Why Nobody Cares About Your Content
Lenny: That’s a great name.
The Go Direct Strategy
Lulu Cheng Meservey: It is, we should do it.
Must Founders Be on Twitter?
Lenny: We should do this.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: If we had a company and we were trying to put out a message to the world that our new thing works, it’s really revolutionary, our genes are the best genes. If employees are not saying that, then people are going to look at employees and say, “Well, they would know, they’re closer to this than we are. So if they’re not excited then why would we be excited?” And so that undermines everything that we’re trying to do, you can’t skip a circle is my point.
The Opportunity on LinkedIn
Lenny: Super interesting. And I imagine the closer they are to the employees the more time you spend with them, and the more innately they’re closer and also their perspective and what they share is more powerful because they’re closer to what’s happening.
Lessons from the Beauty Industry
Lulu Cheng Meservey: And if it goes wrong the more damage they can do. So on the spectrum it’s if they are not totally on board and they’re not an effective messenger, versus they’re just lukewarm and they’re not really sure they believe it. All the way to they actively fell off the bandwagon and you lost them, and now they’re out there proactively contradicting everything you say or even trying to destroy the company, that can happen. If an early employee, for example, feels disgruntled, which is easy to do and it’s easy to do through a comms mistake. If you sell them on one thing and here’s a vision, and now either that’s changed or you miscommunicated. If they feel like there’s a bait and switch they’re going to be really mad. And now you’ve created someone who is incredibly credible and has the same social and professional circle as you and is trying to ruin you.
Why Going Direct Is So Important
Lenny: That’s such a good point. For someone that’s trying to do this maybe internally they’re like, “Oh, cool, we got to create these circles for our startup.” What do you recommend they do? Do they make a list of here’s our inner circle, here’s the next circle of people.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yeah, you take out your one-page Google Doc. I feel like most comms problems can be solved with one-page Google Doc. So you go to your one-page Google Doc and you take your audiences, you list them, probably stop at five or six because past that it’s like way, way first world problem. You’ll have more than enough work to win over the five or six inner circles, and then you have to rank them. And you rank them by how much they’re able to influence your success and how much credibility other groups assign them. So then you have your inner to outer circles.
And then for each of them you would think about what do they care about that’s their cultural erogenous zones and where do they reside intellectually? So do they listen to podcasts, if so, which ones. Do they go to in-person conferences? Are they getting all of their news from Reddit? If so, which subreddits are they on Hacker News? Once you map that out, then again you have the people you’re trying to reach, the ideas and messages that resonate the most with them, and then the ways to actually reach them.
How to Start Building an Audience
Lenny: This is becoming a real template we can start using. In the bucket of erogenous zones what are some examples of erogenous zones for people in this context?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: We’ve talked about the free expression stand from last year. A lot of people care about first amendment, protecting press freedoms and free expression. Not a lot of people care that a journalist said something mean about Substack. And so there were a few times when we did have to push back publicly against a journalist saying something mean and unfair or untrue about Substack. So obviously my and our ulterior motive is to vindicate the company and show people that this isn’t true. But if we had just done that, nobody would’ve cared or maybe a few diehards would’ve cared. There are people who care deeply about Substack, but not as many people and not as deeply as the people who care about their ability to express themselves freely or their right to build their own media platform without too many controls.
Lightning Round Q&A
Lenny: The way you described it earlier came back to me as you were talking, which is this idea that lights people up. What lights people up within this list of people that you’re making? So that’s really interesting. So the idea is create this list of people across circles further and further away from your employees. Think about what lights them up, what are their erogenous zones intellectually, and then think about where they spend their time intellectually, what are they listening to? What are they reading?
Lightning Round: Recommendations and Shares
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yeah, that’s it.
Final Thoughts and Conclusion
Lenny: Amazing, this is super cool.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: It’s not easy, it’s hard, you have to make very difficult tactical decisions every day when you’re doing that, but it is simple.
Lenny: Yeah, it seems pretty easy. Okay, this is great. Another framework that we haven’t talked about yet, do you have this math formula for how ideas spread? Does that ring a bell?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yeah.
Lenny: Okay, let’s get into that.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I think it’s useful to try to bring as much discipline as possible to comms, because you’re really just measuring vibes. In a world of OKRs and data and metrics it’s hard to know if you’re doing the right thing with comms. And so I think whenever you’re able to establish a framework its useful, so this one is kind of a mathematical formula of comms for a purpose. It assumes that you have a business goal and as a business goal, not communications goal, it’s not get this many impressions or go viral or blah. It is we’re going to grow our revenue by X, or we’re going to make this penetration into this user base. When you have your business goal you’re going to need certain people to do certain things for that goal to come true. So for example, you’re going to need this type of person in this quantity to buy these sneakers in order for you to meet your revenue goal.
So now you know who the people are and the action they need to take. The next step is what do they need to believe in order to take that action? So they need to believe that their feet are not comfortable now, and that it’s possible for their feet to be more comfortable and that’ll have a positive effect on their life, and that this new sneaker technology is real, so they need to believe these things. Then it’s where do they reside intellectually? How do you deliver that message to them, and that’s the who do they listen to? Which accounts do they follow? Which podcast do they… what trips do they take? What newspapers, et cetera. And when you have that then you have the equation of we need to deliver this message to these people through these mediums in order to get them to do this thing with this call to action. And that way you know that you’re at least pushing forward and getting something done with your comms as opposed to just saying words into the ether.
Lenny: I think you had something like there’s pressure and force and area, is that part of this or is that a different framework?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Different framework.
Lenny: Oh, okay, cool.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Oh yeah.
Lenny: Okay, okay, let’s talk about this other framework too.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I’ve got more frameworks, Lenny.
Lenny: I love it, this is what this podcast is all about. Let’s do it.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: This is a useful one for early stage startups especially, or anybody who’s just trying to be lean and efficient, which is anyone who’s an underdog like we talked about earlier, that if you decrease the surface area than with the same amount of force you can apply more pressure. So the amount of pressure is the force divided by the surface area, this is a basic equation for physics, but it’s also true of communications, which is if you decrease the surface area and don’t try to appeal to everybody with everything. And you’re targeting exactly whom you’re talking to and you are sharpening your message to a point, to get them in the bullseye of the cultural erogenous zone. Then you’re able to with the same amount of effort or expense or time, you’re able to make more of an impact, you’re able to apply more pressure.
So I think of it as there’s a continuum between you can either hyper-target, so the extreme of the continuum is you are becoming the life partner of one person. That’s the ultra hyper targeting. And then the other end of the spectrum is you’re appealing to everybody. You’re appealing to a larger number of people, but with a weaker message, in a weaker way. So you could say world peace is good, nobody disagrees with that practically, but also it doesn’t stick and it’s not meaningful to them. So you have to choose where you’re going to be along that continuum. And for most startups I would choose towards the fewer people end of it, where you choose who’s going to be your diehards and then you foster them and create really deep meaningful relationships with them. And the way to do that is to decrease the surface area and apply more pressure.
Lenny: It feels like you did that with Substack where it was focused on people writing online, or I guess tell me is that how you thought about it Substack of here’s our little focused area and we’ll focus target message to that.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: That was the goal and that’s actually why I started spending time on Twitter. It was a very self-loathing exercise like Hamish doesn’t like the Twitter model, nor do, we would talk about this a lot and I always felt a little bit fringe being on there. And before I worked at Substack I had a sleepy account of a couple hundred followers that didn’t do very much. And I realized that the people that we were trying to speak to are heavy Twitter users, whether it’s media people or online writers. And so I decided I’m going to spend some time and try to build an audience and then that audience became leverage, for better or worse. I don’t think we should measure people by their Twitter following, but the fact is that if you have more then journalists and writers take you a bit more seriously. And so if I was going to try to carry a message on behalf of the company, I felt like it would be more effective if I had more people.
Lenny:
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Going back to this formula, pressure equals force divided by area. Basically, to increase the effectiveness of your message you can either increase the force and what is in this context force? Is it like the amount of messaging or is it the success of your message?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: It’s the amount of effort you put into it. So it’s how much you are spending on this campaign or you have a limited amount of hours in the day and dollars in the bank. And so anytime you’re doing something with comms, you’re either paying the dollars or you’re paying the time. Sometimes you’re drawing down on credibility too, you have a certain amount of credibility and there are times when you just have to say, “Please trust me.” You can spend that more efficiently if you focus. So instead of if you just take a simple ad campaign, instead of spending a million dollars to reach a million people, maybe you spend a $100 to reach the hundred most important people. And focus that message exactly to them so that when they see your ad they’re actually going to click on it and they’re actually going to forward it, and that’s a much better return. And then you might end up with a million dollars worth of return, because those people were so passionate that they then became their own messengers without you even having to be involved anymore.
Lenny: This is a really great framework, again, is your advice that for the smaller you are just basically reduce the area?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yes.
Lenny: And the larger you are increase that over time?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yes. If you’re just starting out, get 10 diehards and just spend all your time… You can’t start out and try to win over the general public. You start out by creating a tiny, not the best analogy is one I can think of right now, a tiny monopoly. And it’s the same like succeeding on Substack or creating anything on the internet. You choose what is going to be your tiny corner of the internet that you are going to just dominate entirely. And the smaller it is, the more you can dominate it and then these people that are in it become your true believers, your diehards, and they’ll expand it out to the next circle and then you go from there. But if you try to win over everybody at the same time, it’s a food coloring in the ocean kind of thing as opposed to food coloring in a cup.
Lenny: Is there an example that comes to mind of someone that did this really well? I don’t know. I know it’s hard to think of just an example off the top of your head, but does anything come to mind?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Balaji did this really well with his book The Network State, that book was super successful. He didn’t do a lot of the traditional book tour New York Times stuff. He went his own route, and I think that was really smart if you’re going to put it in the setting of this framework, it’s he created his own distribution channels. He didn’t try to compete with the roster of Harper Collins on their turf, and when he created his own distribution channels he focuses on who are the diehards and the truth fans, and these are people that he fosters. He goes on podcasts that reach these people. He doesn’t deviate from messaging to try to appeal to everybody. There are people who just will never like that guy and he is totally fine with it. So he’s not watering down who he is to appeal to people who will never like him, which it’s tempting for companies to do.
You hate when people are mad at you, so you try to appeal to them and then your true fans lose their passion because the thing that made you so special has now gone milk toast. So Balaji fosters his true fans and then when the book launched they propelled him to the top of the Amazon list, because they were out there evangelizing, proselytizing. You probably saw all these tweets about his book. He didn’t pay anybody as far as I know. He didn’t pay anybody to do that. He just shared it with the people and they wanted to show that they were into this.
Lenny: That’s a great example. I know that founders often worry focusing too narrowly limits their market, and it’s never going to grow into anything large. In your experience do you find that that’s just often not true, that there’s often a much bigger opportunity than they think? Or is that just a good way to start and then you expand from there?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: It’s both. If you’re writing online or doing something online, the denominator is the size of the internet. You don’t need to capture 80% of it. If you capture 0.01% of it, that is a great business and then you can go from there. Once you’ve won that then you can decide to go from there and the world is a big place. So now that everything’s digital the denominator’s so large that I wouldn’t worry too much about the numerator. But it is also true that if you start off trying to peel to too many people, you have to water down your stuff so much that you’ll never stand out. And you’ve written about this Lenny with how to be viral, how to be noticed, and one of the things is be remarkable. And you can’t be remarkable if you’re trying to appeal to so many people that you have to become the average of 500,000 people’s tastes.
Lenny: This is a good way to think about I think when something’s not working, when you’re trying to get a bunch of attention for your product and no one cares. Feels like this is one reason is just you’re going too wide.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yeah, I think that’s probably the most common reason.
Lenny: Maybe just thinking about diagnosing why your comms may not be working. This may be too big of a question, but just what other explanations could there be for why no one cares about what you’re trying to put out?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: You’re doing it as a corporation instead of a person. This is another super common mistake is you’re letting yourself speak like a faceless corporation because it feels like that’s what you should do now. Okay, now you’re a real company and now you got to do real company stuff, that means you have to issue decrees on behalf of the C corp and you don’t. And it doesn’t work because people don’t trust institutions. People don’t like corporations or at least are not passionate about them. People care about people and trust and like people, and so there’s a sense of wanting to cosplay an executive and it doesn’t work, it doesn’t resonate. A good example of this would be Ryan Peterson at Flexport. His company, even after it got huge, he never became the generic corporate chief. He always was a person. And there are people, many, many people who became interested in Flexport because Ryan’s an interesting guy. And it’s not like they had a passion for logistics and freight and shipping, but he’s doing something interesting. And then he became the human gateway drug for people to become interested in his company.
Lenny: Yeah, absolutely. He had that crazy viral tweet about the ports and that’s a really good example. Man, I was going to go in a different direction, but maybe we go to this idea of going direct. You’re a big fan and Balaji is a really big fan of this too, speaking of just the importance of going direct. So maybe just talk about what does that mean and why is that important these days?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Well, Balaji is more go direct than me. He thinks that I’m soft in this area because I think that there’s still a place for engaging with media and that it’s just another tool. He’s for just straight-up go direct undistilled. But I think that for everybody a 100% of the time you want going direct to be a part of what you’re doing, whether it’s all you’re doing, or whether you’re doing something else, you can’t not have a direct channel. So what that actually looks like, and people say this all the time go direct. What does that actually look like to go direct? It means that the founder or executive for some very senior person has to be speaking from themselves. First person, may be first person plural, and speaking in a human voice authentically. You see them make mistakes, you see them be vulnerable, and they have to become an ambassador to the community.
If you don’t have that, then you don’t have a direct channel even if you have a Twitter or a Substack or whatever, it’s not direct if not connected to a person because if the other side of it is a corporation there’s no direct connection. And then the second thing is start building your own audience as soon as possible. You can do this alongside engaging with the media or doing traditional things. To the point of focusing your energy and decreasing the surface area, for startups I would not recommend trying to do an Instagram, a Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and TikTok. I would choose the thing that that person is the best at. So if your spokesman is going to be your CEO, which is a good default, they’re going to have a dominant communication style where they’re the best at being themselves. And that’s important because if somebody else is ghost-writing all their stuff, it shows.
So some CEOs are better at writing long form. Some CEOs are better at doing videos. Some do better with audio or podcasts, some are better with short form. The way that Elon Musk communicates on Twitter, he’s born to do Twitter. You can’t picture him writing long thoughtful blog posts, it’s not a thing that he does. Whereas Brian Armstrong or Hamish or Chris, they write great blog posts that are sincere and effective, and that’s better than them just trying to do it only through tweets. So pick the thing that your spokesperson is the best at and then invest everything into that channel, and then build it up to a decent amount and then expand outward. Because if you try to build six or seven channels at once you’re just not going to get anywhere.
Lenny: I think that’s such a important point. I feel like me choosing a newsletter was actually a really good choice. As much as you may not believe this I’m not a performer person, I just want to hide behind the computer and just type stuff. And the newsletters, especially during COIVD, I was like, “I just sit at home and share stuff and edit and think about it where it’s like, ‘Hello everyone.’” And it took me a while to get to this point of like, “Oh, I can maybe do a podcast because I’ve built up a little more confidence that this is useful.” So I so agree with that and that’s what I tell a lot of people. Just pick the platform that is most natural to you. Maybe you like talking, maybe you performing on video, maybe you just want to sit and type.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: And that’s a good point too, Lenny, because it changes over time. Just because you pick one thing doesn’t mean that you’re stuck with only that forever. Over time you might choose different things and I’ve seen founders become a lot more comfortable in front of the camera, for example, once they’ve done a few reps. And the other reason to know that you can just change it over time is otherwise it feels like a deterrent to getting started. Sometimes there’s paralysis if I don’t know which thing to choose, and so I’m either going to do a bunch of them or none of them. Go with your gut pick one and you’re not wed to that forever, you can always change it down the road.
Lenny: Do you think every founder needs to be on Twitter? I get this a lot from founders. Do I need to be on Twitter? I hate Twitter. What’s your take?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: No, I think a lot of founders do. If they are super mission driven, for example, that’s one way that you’re going to find other people that resonate with your mission and that you’re going to make the case for the mission. If you’re mission driven there’s also a good chance that you’re doing something that some people love and some people hate. And so you’re going to need to be out there fighting the fight in a way. I don’t mean in a pugilistic antagonistic way, but you have to defend your thing. And so I think it’s important if you’re mission driven. I also think it’s important if your charisma is a big part of recruiting for the company. There are some companies where the founder’s charisma is a big part of why people want to go work there. So Palmer Lucky and Anduril, he is magnetic to a lot of engineers and they want to go work with that guy, specifically. Whereas there are companies where people want to go work for the company and it’s less important that the founder is vocal.
Lenny: What’s interesting I found recently is I get more traffic to my newsletter from LinkedIn than Twitter. Is that something you think about at all? Going to LinkedIn instead of Twitter feels so wrong to say, but what’s your take there?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yes, if you are career related, LinkedIn will be a lot better. One, it’s better because it’s not such a cesspool where anything immediately becomes controversial and people fight over it in their mentions. Two, because LinkedIn is really underutilized and founders should know this, PMs should know this. LinkedIn is super underutilized because it gets a ton of eyeballs in time, but most of the content sucks. 95% of the content this is not scientific-
Lenny: Seems right, seems right.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: This is my might estimate. 95% of the content is people congratulating each other on work anniversaries or people saying, “I’m so proud of my team for this thing they did.” And then people react out of a sense of friendship and affection or support, but actually genuinely interesting and useful content on LinkedIn is very rare. So the ratio of your competitive set of interesting content versus how much time and attention people spend on there is excellent.
Lenny: That is really good advice. I’m going to throw a fishing line into the pool of examples. You talked about people doing this well, going direct. Balaji talking about Ryan Peterson and Elon obviously. Is there anyone else that’s just like here check out what they’re doing and could be a good model to learn from?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I think it’s really interesting to see what Mike Solana is doing with Pirate Wires. Here’s an example of why it clearly makes sense to have the founder be very active on Twitter because he is his own recruiter and spokesperson. So I think the makeup industry actually is at the forefront of this. The makeup industry is smarter than all of us in how they use social media and influencers, because they caught on very early on that people don’t buy makeup to subscribe to makeup brands, that they do it because a certain celebrity or influencer or Kardashian has this nice looking eyelid and they want their eyelid to look that way.
And so going back years before the rest of us were talking about going direct, there are makeup companies that would spend $0 on marketing, and minimal efforts on press and pour all of it decreasing the surface area. Pour all of it into fostering a small roster of influencers and having them spread the message. And so I think watch makeup companies, watch consumer companies, they’re doing it right, they speak with a human voice, they speak through human beings and they’re fast. If there’s a trend the same day they will have hopped on the trend… within an hour they’re on the trend, as opposed to other industries or more traditional companies that take a few days and they route through approvals and then the opportunity’s gone.
Lenny: What are some makeup companies for people to check out to see what they’re doing?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: So NYX, N-Y-X, it’s a division of L’Oreal. NYX is wanted the makeup companies that has, as far as I know $0 spent on marketing and all of their dollars and all of their effort spent on paying influencers. And they really out punched their weight in terms of using humans to deliver a message that contains a call to action and then selling out product. And the product will be like a normal black eyeliner. It’s the most fungible thing you could possibly imagine, and that one eyeliner will be sold out at CBS’s across the country for a couple weeks, because they did something right with their social media using a person.
Lenny: Just a couple more questions around this going direct concept. I don’t know if you actually talked about why that’s important because I think we talk about this a lot, and I think people may not recognize why people find this so important these days. What’s the motivation behind that with Balaji and other founders?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: There’s two reasons it’s important, there’s the offense and the defense of it. The defense of it is going back to having the underdog, the insurgency mentality. If you’re trying to do something different that goes against the grain, people are going to attack you. Not everyone’s going to like it. And the point is that not everyone should like it, but you need a way to stand up for yourself because you don’t have the big institutions and power structures that are going to do that work for you because you’re going against the grain. So if you’re going to stand up for yourself there’s only one way to do it, which is you do it. And so building the audience and the channels and you have to prime the market. By which I mean if you’re a public company, you’re priming the market by getting them used to how you convey information to them.
If you’re a small startup or a founder, you’re priming the market by making your audience aware of how you normally communicate, so that when you do something it’s not weird. If you never post and then suddenly you start posting, people are going to think you’re having a crisis or something like what is going on? They’re going to try to read into it. So you have to already have the cadence and the relationships set up so that when you need to draw on them if you’re under attack then you can, that’s the defense of it. The offense of it is if you’re doing something new and if you’re mission driven, and if what you’re doing is truly unique and innovative, no one else will be to tell that as well as you. The most friendly, sympathetic reporter on Earth could not tell that as well as you because they don’t understand it as well as you, and so the onus just falls on you to do it.
Lenny: If someone listening is like, “Yep, okay, I fully agree, time to do this.” What do you suggest as a next step to starting to build an audience and going direct broadly.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Step one would be assessing what are you good at and what do you enjoy? So that’s where you decide, do I like long form writing, or do I enjoy podcasting, or what are my mediums? Step two is setting up your account on those channels. So if you enjoy long form writing then you’re going to have to choose, do you do a Substack, do you do Medium or whatever else? There’s a objectively right answer on that one. But if you are doing short videos you’re going to choose are you going to invest in Instagram, or you’re going to invest in TikTok, you set that up. And then you start building your audience. And when you start if you’re actually starting from zero, get some pipeline of talent ready. Sorry, not pipeline or talent, pipeline of content. Get it ready, it’s the same way as if you’re launching a Substack.
If you’re launching a Substack you want to get a week or two of posts ready to go, so that out the gate you can build a lot of momentum. With different social networks it actually helps the algorithm if you come out the gate strong and are really regular. So TikTok, for example, if you’re starting at TikTok with zero followers, you want to get a week or two of solid data just in the pipeline so you can hit it, hit it because the algorithm favors you right as you’re starting out because they want you to keep going, so you want to ride that as much as possible. So that’s step two is just get yourself ready for launch. Don’t do one post and wait, get a bunch of posts ready and then boom, boom, boom. And then three is to have an ongoing content strategy, you know who you’re going to reach, you know what they care about.
So you have to plan out, “Here’s the cadence with which I’m going to talk to them. Here’s how I’m going to do community management and respond to people, and here are the ways where I’m going to do announcements.” And you get into a cadence because it’s the same as growing a newsletter. The regularity and the consistency is a big part of growing. And so it’s the same with audience. A mistake that people make I think is just every once in a while trying to go viral as opposed to just being consistent. And then some posts do better than others organically, but that’s the way to do it. I don’t live that. I’m not a good example because I’m so self-loathing about being on Twitter I will go away for one or two weeks and do nothing, and then I’ll come in with a bunch of posts in one day. It’s not a best practice. It’s not the way you’re supposed to do it. Ideally, you’re just there every day saying something and then it builds over time.
Lenny: I’m actually an example of trying to focus on consistent non-viral content and it’s worked out.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: It has worked out.
Lenny: It’s worked out. It’s worked out so far, but it’s interesting to see how different people act and how it’s like I’m trying to go viral every tweet, every post and that is hard. And it’s also just like people can tell you’re just trying to create some viral thing and no one cares.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: And it’s very obvious when you’re just trying to go viral for the sake of it and you don’t have a real message. It’s like the post when people screenshot the iPhone six digit security code and they say best feature apple’s ever built. A few people did that, and now I’ve seen it probably dozens of times. And it doesn’t even help to get you followers because that’s not something where people say, “Only this person could uniquely give me this kind of content in the future.” If you’re going to get followers with a one-off joke, it has to be an incredibly hilarious one-off joke where they say, “This person is going to keep entertaining me.” But with these kind of viral baits, I don’t think it’s even that effective.
Lenny: And also what I find if something does go viral, whatever the correct term is and then life goes on, nothing’s going to significantly… that’s just one thing, and then you have to do it again and again. That’s where people don’t realize like, “Oh, I went viral. I’m done. My life is good now.” Nothing’s going to really change most often, and you have to do it again and again.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I think that’s true. One thing that I’ve noticed about your audience, Lenny, is that it’s the right audience. It’s the people who find value in what you do, and they’re in the right place and there’s a match. Sometimes in the effort to just gain followers for the sake of it or a go viral for the sake of it, you end up with a mismatch of the audience. You had this viral hamster tweet, and now they’re all here expecting hamster content, and they’re not engaging with you, you’re not bringing value to them. It’s just making the number go up, which is not that meaningful. So one example of this is there’s all these threads about how to just grow on Twitter for no reason, just grow for the sake of growing.
And it’s a lot of generic advice of make sure that you bullet point out the 10 things. But it’s always pablum of make sure that you value your relationships, and make time for yourself. And things that are not enriching people’s lives they get a lot of likes that are low value likes from random people about the internet. But I don’t think that they’re deepening a relationship with a meaningful audience, and I don’t think that they’re really capturing the respect and admiration of their peers. So I think it’s just important to consider what trade-offs people make in their efforts to grow.
Lenny: Well, with that we’ve reached our very exciting lightning round. I’ve got five questions for you. Are you ready?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Ready.
Lenny: First question. Great. What are two or three books you’ve recommended most to other people?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I recommend Gates of Fire, it comes off the Marine Commandants Reading List, it’s on there perennially. It is about the Battle of Thermopylae, it’s the 300 Spartans, but it’s the whole backstory. And if you get into it’s about leadership, it’s about courage, it’s about creativity, and it’s really well-written, so that’s one that I recommend a lot.
Lenny: What’s a favorite recent movie or TV show?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I’ve been watching The Last Of Us, like everybody on Earth. I’ve been watching it both for entertainment and for work, because it’s really interesting to see how the show drives sales of the video games, and how you can use that to make the whole of the sales greater than the sum of its parts. So I’m watching that really carefully.
Lenny: Interesting. We have a drinking game now. Every time someone says Last of us that’s a new thing because it’s starting to come up a lot, so everyone enjoy your drink. Favorite interview question you like to ask?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I like to ask people what they’ve been reading too. It’s a good way to get good book recommendations. It’s also a good way to see where their head’s at when they’re not working.
Lenny: Favorite SaaS products that you use day-to-day and bonus points for something that is new or interesting that you’ve recently discovered?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: I don’t know that this is new or novel because I use Notion for almost everything, and I really like the new AI that they’ve built into it. I also have been using Lex, which is Nathan Baschez startup, where it’s like the AI writing editor that you’ve probably seen. I’m trying to think if there’s anything that I use that other people don’t. I don’t think I’m terribly original in that sense. I use a lot of Microsoft Excel, which I think is controversial.
Lenny: That is, wow, that’s cool, but I get it. That’s when you know you’re doing serious work, you got to accelerate.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yeah, exactly.
Lenny: Final question, best tip for someone trying to get attention for their product, take away tip, best takeaway tip.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Give it away for free to the right people. If you can choose the people who are going to love it, look at the Venn diagram of people who are going to be obsessed with this product. And people who have a large following among the other people that you want to get to, whoever falls into that sliver of the Venn diagram shower them with free product.
Lenny: Amazing. Lulu, I think this conversation is going to lead to a lot more people going direct, taking risks and ideas spreading. Thank you for being here. Two final questions where can folks find you online if they want to learn more and reach out and how can listeners be useful to you?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: People can find me at getflack.com, that’s where I write down my ideas, hopefully more frequently in the future than in the past. But that’s where they can find some of this stuff if they’re interested. How can listeners be helpful to me is to give me feedback. I’m learning on the job. I don’t think that there’s anyone alive who’s an expert in communicating in this crazy environment that we have now. I think we’re all crossing the river by feeling the stones, and so your listeners have gone through this in many different ways. And I hope that if they have new ideas of feedback or objections, that they’ll email me through that website or on Twitter and let me know what they think.
Lenny: Amazing and its get flack.com.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Yes.
Lenny: We’ll link to it in the show notes.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Thank you.
Lenny: Lulu, thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Thank you, Lenny, appreciate it.
Lenny: Thank you so much for listening. If you found this valuable you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Also please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast. You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com. See you in the next episode.
Glossary
| English | 中文 |
|---|---|
| Anduril | Anduril(国防科技公司,首次出现) |
| API | 接口(此处喻指连接两者兴趣的桥梁,保留原文) |
| bait and switch | 诱饵替换(先承诺后变卦) |
| Balaji | Balaji(保留原文,指 Balaji Srinivasan) |
| be remarkable | 与众不同 |
| Bill Bishop | Bill Bishop(Substack 一号作者,保留原文) |
| binders of women | ”装满女性的活页夹”(2012年美国总统辩论中的知名失言) |
| centers of gravity | 重心节点 |
| Chris | Chris(Substack 联合创始人 Chris Best,首次出现) |
| comms | 传播(communications 的简称) |
| concentric circles | 同心圆 |
| cultural erogenous zones | 文化敏感带 |
| delivery mechanisms | 传播机制 |
| diehards | 死忠粉 |
| DTC (Direct-to-Consumer) | DTC(直接面向消费者) |
| First Amendment | 第一修正案 |
| Flack | Flack(Lulu 的 Newsletter 名称,保留原文) |
| Flexport | Flexport(物流公司,保留原文) |
| food coloring in the ocean vs. in a cup | 大海里滴食用色素 vs. 杯子里滴食用色素 |
| Gates of Fire | 《火之门》(关于温泉关之战的历史小说) |
| gateway drug | 诱饵(此处喻指让人产生兴趣的入口) |
| ghost-writing | 代笔 |
| go direct | 直接触达 |
| Hamish | Hamish(Substack 联合创始人 Hamish McKenzie,首次出现) |
| Harper Collins | Harper Collins(出版公司,保留原文) |
| Jerraj | Jerraj(首次出现) |
| K-12 education | K-12 教育(美国从幼儿园到十二年级的基础教育) |
| Kamala Harris | Kamala Harris(美国政治人物,保留原文) |
| Kardashian | Kardashian(首次出现) |
| Lex | Lex(AI 写作编辑器产品名,保留原文) |
| meme | 迷因 |
| Mike Solana | Mike Solana(首次出现) |
| milk toast | 索然无味(原文 milk toast,意指平淡无奇、缺乏特色) |
| mistakes of commission | 作为的错误(主动做了某事而犯的错) |
| mistakes of omission | 不作为的错误(因没有做某事而犯的错) |
| Mitt Romney | 米特·罗姆尼 |
| Nathan Baschez | Nathan Baschez(首次出现) |
| NYX | NYX(美妆品牌,首次出现) |
| out punch one’s weight | 以小搏大(实力超出自身量级的表现) |
| Palmer Lucky | Palmer Lucky(Anduril 创始人,首次出现) |
| pay it forward | 善意传递 |
| Pirate Wires | Pirate Wires(媒体品牌,首次出现) |
| power users | 核心用户 |
| put the pill in cheese | 把药丸藏在奶酪里(用奶酪包裹药丸,喻指把核心信息包裹在吸引人的外壳中) |
| recommendations | recommendations(推荐功能,指 Substack 的推荐功能) |
| Ryan Peterson | Ryan Peterson(Flexport 创始人,保留原文) |
| social proof | 社交证明 |
| The Last of Us | 《最后生还者》 |
| The Network State | 《网络状态》(保留原文书名) |
| Thermopylae | 温泉关 |
| true believers | 真正信徒 |
| true fans / truth fans | 铁粉 |
| underdog | 弱者(处于劣势的一方) |
| 摸着石头过河 | crossing the river by feeling the stones(此处原文为英文习语,其中文对应表达即为”摸着石头过河”) |
Reformatted by reformat_english.py
用这个框架作为弱者获得关注 | Lulu Cheng Meservey
找到你受众的文化敏感带
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我常说,要找到你受众的文化敏感带(cultural erogenous zones)。意思是,人们有自己在乎或不在乎的东西,你改变不了这一点。要改变一个人的世界观或热情所在,是极为费力的。而把你想谈的事情,塑造成符合他们的世界观或热情的形状,则是轻而易举的。当然,并不总能找到契合点。
有些人就是不是你的天然受众,你应该清楚这一点,不要浪费时间。但如果你的天然受众关心的是 X,而你提供的是 Y,那你的工作就是创建从 X 到 Y 的接口或桥梁。传播不是”建好了他们就会来”。你必须拥有超乎常人的天赋——我一辈子都没见过这样的天赋——才能创造出一个如此有力的信息和故事,让一个此前毫不关心的人突然把它变成自己的热情所在。更简单的做法是理解他们的热情所在,然后说服他们:如果你在乎那个,你就应该在乎我的东西,因为两者之间有这样的联系。
Lenny: 欢迎收听 Lenny’s Podcast,我在这里采访世界级的产品领袖和增长专家,从他们打造和发展当今最成功产品的宝贵经验中学习。今天的嘉宾是 Lulu Meservey。我在她担任 Substack 传播负责人时认识了她,她以敢冒大险、大胆表态而闻名,也因此为 Substack 和她代表的其他公司制造了大量关注。Lulu 绝对是我合作过的最具创新性和最有趣的传播人。
她目前是动视暴雪(Activision Blizzard)企业事务执行副总裁兼首席传播官。她撰写了我认为是公关和传播策略领域最好的 Newsletter,一份名为 Flack 的 Newsletter。在我们的对话中,我们会具体讨论如何让你的想法传播出去、文化敏感带、直接触达相对于依赖传统媒体日益增长的重要性、在传播中冒险的重要性等等。Lulu 见解深刻,我本可以继续和她探讨这个话题几个小时。请在短暂休息后,欣赏这期与 Lulu Meservey 的对话。
Lenny: Lulu,欢迎来到播客。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 谢谢 Lenny,很高兴来到这里。
什么让想法传播开来
Lenny: 我非常期待聊聊传播和公关的一切。我从未遇到过不想更好地传播想法、不想让产品被更多人知道的创始人或产品领袖,而你在这方面非常擅长。我们会谈到你在这个领域做的一些事情。不过先从大的方面开始,我很好奇你觉得是什么帮助一个想法传播开来?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 让想法传播开有几种方法,总原则是你必须让它令人难忘,而且必须让人们自发地想要去说。让人们不想说,是因为要替一家公司帮忙。让他们想说,是因为想给他人带来快乐,想逗人笑,想显得有趣,或者想表达自己身份的某一部分。所以你可以用几种方式处理一个想法来让它更好地传播:把它变成一个笑话,变成一句人们会重复的话;使用类比;反复说同一句话,比如 move fast and break things、don’t be evil、build something people want。
你可以创造一个非常鲜活的画面。比如我经常用的一个画面是”把药丸藏在奶酪里”(put the pill in some cheese),我们稍后可以详谈,这是关于如何打造一个能黏住人的故事。但当我说”把药丸藏在奶酪里”时,人们往往会记住,而且更容易重复。最后一件事是用故事、用轶事,而不是用形容词,因为形容词太主观了,对人们来说毫无意义。如果你给他们一个故事,那是他们可以在餐桌上反复讲述的东西。
框架的实际案例
Lenny: 你对你刚才分享的框架有什么具体例子吗?你提到了类比或者”把药丸藏在奶酪里”——我觉得这是指给狗喂药时把药丸藏在奶酪里的做法。你有没有看到过这些方法实际运作的故事或例子,你自己做的或者你看到其他公司做的?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 一个反面的例子是”装满女性的活页夹”(binders of women)。你还记得米特·罗姆尼(Mitt Romney)说 binders of women 的时候吗,那简直像野火一样传开了,因为你能想象出那个活页夹的样子,那是一个滑稽的画面,你可以拿它编很多笑话。这是一个非常具体、不寻常的措辞,非常容易被重复,而且极其适合做成迷因(meme)。所以这并不是他们希望发生的事情,这也算是一个警示——这招也可能反噬你,但这就是一个例子。我提到的 move fast and break things、software is eating the world、it’s time to build,这些都是把普通词汇以不寻常的顺序排列的短句,尤其是如果你重复几次,它们就会变得非常黏。
如何想出能传播的短语
Lenny: 这些道理事后听起来都很聪明、很有洞见。你有没有什么建议关于怎么……我们现在说的是想出一句能传播开的漂亮话,怎么做这件事。我不知道你见过什么有效的方法来想出 move fast and break things 这样的口号,一个创始人应该怎么着手?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 你要做的是一个二年级小学生都能看懂的东西。你要尽量降低接收者的认知负担。所以它应该是那种——对方不需要花额外的精力去理解,能立刻在脑海中描绘出一幅画面。或者如果你要讲一个笑话,那得是一个对方立刻就能 get 到的笑话,或者是一个广为人知的典故。你不会希望它是那种只有你自己懂的内部笑话——你解释给别人听了,他们也许能懂,但那不是你想要的。所以如果你要把公司或使命的精髓提炼出来,先缩成一句话,然后把这句话改写成一个二年级小学生都能听懂的表达,再剔除所有陈词滥调和日常用语。如果你能把这句话变成一个类比,或者赋予它某种画面感,那你大概就完成了百分之八九十了。
创造传播性内容的反面案例
Lenny: 你在 Twitter 上肯定做过这件事。分享一下你发过、用了这个方法然后疯传的推文之类的可能会很有意思。我注意到你会删掉旧推文,我觉得这很聪明,我大概也应该这么做。所以我找不到任何例子,但我记得我当时就想,“卧槽,这有好几百万的浏览量。” 有没有什么浮现在脑海中的例子你能分享一下?就是分享一下你发出去然后爆了的东西。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我其实也有一个反面例子。我觉得分享我的错误和失策跟分享成功经验一样有用,因为错误和失策本来就比成功多。总的来说,你尝试很多东西,偶尔有那么几次成功。但我觉得思考一下哪些没有奏效也很有价值。我的一个例子是——你可能还记得这件事,那是在 Substack 时期,当时我们因为审查不够而受到大量攻击,我们表明了立场,说要鼓励自由表达。我当时其实在休产假,所以对情况不太了解,但我想跳进来支持这件事。所以我发了一个长帖,讲我们为什么即使在困难的时候也要坚持这个原则,那个帖子反响很好,传播得很广。
大概有三万多点赞,来自我们在意的人群——那些在网上写作的人。然后帖子里有一条推文,我说了一句类似”做这件事并不令人愉快,但话说回来,大海亦然”这样的话。完全是一个晦涩的典故,当时在我脑海里很新鲜,因为它来自《纽约客》的一篇书评,在那个语境下它是诗意的、引人遐想的、优美的。而我犯了你不该犯的错——就是把一个只有自己懂的内部笑话丢到了全世界面前。
那条推文在长帖中间成了一颗哑弹,你能看到点赞量急剧下降,人们的反应是”你在说什么?“之后我用全新的眼光去看它——“确实,脱离语境以后完全说不通。“而且我也不是什么纽约书评人,所以那是一个很好的”别这么做”的反面教材。但这个比喻的色彩太浓了,反而以一种意外的方式引起了人们的注意。我不是故意的。我想这算是一个”别这么做”的例子,这能算吗?
传播人员应该敢于冒险
Lenny: 行,这算一个,后面我们还会讲其他例子。不过这倒恰好引出了我本来想留到后面再聊的一个话题,但现在可能是聊的好时机——就是你很强调的一个理念:作为传播人员要敢于冒险。我觉得你的感觉是传播人员通常太保守了,而大胆一点其实有很大的机会。在这个例子里可能没成功,但其他时候你确实成功了。所以聊聊你关于冒险的这个理念吧。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我觉得如果你是一家创业公司,你的敌人就是现状。当你不去冒险、通过什么都不做来把风险降到最低时——降低风险最好的方式就是什么都不做——你就是在让现状赢。你在让你最大的敌人、对手和对业务的威胁不战而胜,因为你连竞争都不去尝试。所以我一直鼓励人们去犯作为的错误(mistakes of commission),而不是不作为的错误(mistakes of omission)。因为如果你犯了作为的错误,你可以观察到它,你可以从中学习。你立刻就知道发生了什么。你可以迅速做出调整,变得更好。
而如果你犯的是不作为的错误,你就是在让现状获胜,你没有在观察,没有在学习,你甚至可能都没有注意到机会从指缝中溜走。所以我用的例子——再说一次,用一个类比来让它更容易记住——我的类比是:把钱投资到市场中,对比只是持有现金。如果你持有现金,你不会亏钱,感觉很安全。但随着时间推移,世界在运转,市场在增长,其他人都在变得更富有,而你在实际购买力上变得越来越穷。而如果你做了投资,它会涨涨跌跌,会有波动,不会每天都涨,但从长远来看你会好得多。
Lenny: 有没有一个你自己做的、冒了险并且成功的例子,或者你看到别人做得很好的?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 那个支持言论自由的长帖就算是一个成功的冒险。它是冒险的,因为很多人已经对这个话题很愤怒了——每个重要的话题都会这样。对我来说感觉有点冒险,因为我在休假,并没有真正身处事情的中心。我脑子本来就不太清醒,所以里面至少有一条莫名其妙的内容。所以存在执行层面的风险——我能不能把这件事做好。
还有一个风险是你把头伸出去,在一个本来没事的地方制造了一件事。如果出了问题、让公司蒙羞,或者如果让 Chris 或 Hamish 或 Jerraj 不高兴,那对我来说会很糟糕,显然也是我工作的失败。所以那是我冒的一个险,也是我们团队冒的险,他们是支持的。结果确实奏效了,因为最有可能在 Substack 上写作的人普遍认同这个立场。
Lenny,关于什么东西能帮你在人们记忆中扎根,我其实还有一个例子给你——之前那个大海的类比是失败的例子。我觉得一个有用的成功例子是我经常说的:找到你的受众的文化敏感带(cultural erogenous zones)。这是那种你一听就知道我在说什么的表达。如果我说”了解你受众的文化敏感带”,你明白它的意思,这是一个大家都懂的速记表达。它不是我自己的内部笑话,而且它不同寻常、引人注目,你会想要重复它,也有望记住它——所以这算一个给你的例子。
Lenny: 你跟我讲过那个框架,我确实想多听听。那具体是什么意思?有没有你看到某个人做的、让你觉得”哇,他们真的完美地击中了文化敏感带这个路子”的例子?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对,他们真的精准命中了那个靶心。它的意思是,人们有自己在乎或不在乎的东西,而你无法改变这一点。要改变某人的世界观或热情所在,是极其费力的。但把你想要讲的事情,塑造成能嵌入他们已有世界观或热情所在的样子,则是轻松得多的事。当然,并不是总能对接得上。
有些人群就不是你的天然受众,你应该意识到这一点,不要浪费时间。但如果你天然受众所关心的是 X,而你提供的是 Y,那你的工作就是创建那个 API,或者搭建从 X 到 Y 的桥梁。在传播(comms)这件事上,绝不是”建好了,他们就会来”。你几乎需要超乎常人的天赋——我在自己一生中都记不得见过这样的例子——即你创造出一条信息和叙事,力量大到足以让一个原本毫不在意的人突然把这件事变成自己的热情所在。远比这容易得多的做法是:去理解他们在乎什么,然后说服他们——既然你关心那件事,你就应该也关心这件事,因为两者之间有这样的联系。
每个人都有共鸣的内容
Lenny: 这让我想到你的另一条我觉得疯传的推文,就是你分享了你在 Twitter 上静音的那些东西。比如那种长线、还有那个往下指的手势,感觉那就是完全一样的道理——人们看到就觉得,“对,这就是我。”
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对,就是这个意思。Lenny,我给你举个例子。我脑海中浮现的是 Kamala Harris 竞选参议员的时候。先不管任何人对她作为政治人物的看法,也不管你是否认同她的政治立场,这都不重要。她竞选参议员时,有一个例子——关注 K-12 教育的人不够多。这不是一个有吸引力的话题,只有妈妈们关心它,而人们当时非常关心、现在也仍然关心的是国防和国家安全。
所以她说,要引起这些人注意的方法是:找到关心国家安全的人,告诉他们,“你知道吗,要参军入伍,你必须具备十年级的阅读水平?“如果你达不到那个阅读水平,你就读不了陆军野战手册。所以如果你关心国防的未来,关心能否维持一支常备军,你就需要关注中学阶段的阅读标准。这就是一个完美的例子,事实上它给我留下的印象如此之深,以至于很多年后我还在跟你复述。
弱者公司如何获得关注
Lenny: 我觉得你教的东西还能帮助到另一方面,就是弱者(underdog)面对既有大公司时,给它们一个脱颖而出的机会。比如 Substack 就是一个很好的例子,你在很多方面帮助 Substack 在世界舞台上提升了影响力。你发现什么方法对弱者初创公司和企业获得关注最有效?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 首先,你必须承认自己是弱者,而不是去用 GE(通用电气)上世纪八十年代的那套打法。承认这一点意味着你要清楚:你不会去打那场需要更多资源、更深的关系网、机构背书、以及能够搭现有叙事顺风车的仗。所有这些都不会对你有利。如果你是一家创业公司,按照定义你就是在试图颠覆某种东西、试图用不同的方式做事、在挑战现状。如果是这样的话,你不能指望政府、也不能指望主流媒体来支持你在做的事情。所以你应该选择一种不需要大量资金或人力的路径,不需要机构背书和那些关系的路径。
这意味着你要建立自己的分发渠道,从第一天起就可以做,甚至在公司成立之前就可以开始。意味着要把你的故事讲出来,赢得人心。第一,把这个故事塑造成能对接你受众的文化敏感带(cultural erogenous zones)的样子。第二,找到社会中的重心节点,就是那些能帮你传播的影响力者。因为你不可能在第一天就打给《纽约时报》,让他们按你想要的方式刊登你的故事。所以你需要找到那些影响力者是谁,而做到这一点的方法——我在这之后再截住这个兔子洞,因为可以一直往下钻——方法是以同心圆的方式展开。有位将军说过,如果出了问题,他会以同心圆的方式从自己的办公桌开始往外找。
同心圆传播框架
如果你要传播某个东西,就从自己的办公桌开始,以同心圆向外扩散。所以你首先要对自己把信息梳理得非常清楚,让它非常精炼。这很难做到,因为你懂得太多了,你脑海中有一千个事实,但你必须只挑出其中一到三个。然后下一个圈是你的联合创始人、高管、员工、投资人,再到你的核心用户,然后继续向外,必须按这个顺序来。
但一旦你掌握了这个顺序,确定了相关的人是谁,知道你的受众是谁,然后能够锁定他们的文化敏感带,你就能打造出信息,拥有传播机制,明确目标,然后你就可以出发了。你只是需要事先做好这个功课,这样就不会做很多无用功。
Lenny: 我非常喜欢这个同心圆框架,我之前没有听过。为了让它更具体一些,你有没有什么可以分享的、能说明这个框架的例子?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 你和我聊过很多次 Substack,所以我现在已经没有员工工牌了,算是越界发言。但我觉得 Substack 的创始人一直在做得很棒的一件事,就是以同心圆的方式向外传播产品更新。有很多事情,你会比一个刚加入的新作者更早知道。你,Lenny,会知道它,因为你是一个核心用户,他们会希望你……他们会想确保你喜欢那个东西,甚至让你感觉自己对它有一点主人翁感。你已经在跟别人推荐 recommendations(推荐功能)将近一年了。没有人让你这么做,我们没有付钱让你这么做。你这么做是因为你在早期就被带入了,公司确保了你喜欢这个东西,然后你就成了向外扩散的下一个圈,继续向你的外圈传播。
Lenny: 有意思的是,我没有把它想成一个有意的传播策略,感觉它和跟核心用户交流之间有一种协同效应。从核心用户那里获取反馈,带来了一种有趣的二阶效应——他们也会觉得自己是某个圈子的内部人,他们想分享、想谈论、想告诉朋友,“嘿,Substack 在做一个很酷的东西。“所以这算是一种挺酷的——
同心圆框架的驱动力
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 其实刚才,Lenny,你问了怎么让一条信息传播出去,我说要给有意愿传播的人提供激励。你的激励就是你乐于助人——你喜欢把善意传递下去,帮助其他作者和播客主,而且你真心喜欢那个东西。另外我觉得对你自己的项目也有价值,你可以展示社交证明(social proof)——很多人喜欢这个东西,它在增长——这就是你得到的回报。如果换一种方式,“嘿 Lenny,帮我们个忙,发条推文宣传一下?“你也许会做,但做一次就停了,不会变成一种你自发持续在做的事。
Lenny: 为了让这个同心圆概念更具体,帮助大家理解,Substack 是一个例子。那几个同心圆层次大概是什么样的——最中间可能是核心作者?接下来的几层又是什么?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 最中间几乎总是员工,然后视公司而定。对 Substack 来说就是核心作者,就是你,还有许多早期作者。Bill Bishop 经常被提到,他是 Substack 一号作者,一直很重要。然后是增长迅速的作者、有影响力的作者。还有一些专门报道媒体和写作领域的媒体人,他们也非常重要。投资者也在其中,保持紧密联系就好。
但如果你是另一种公司,可能是员工、董事会、机构投资者、政府和监管者,然后是用户——取决于每个群体对你未来的影响力有多大。我说要按同心圆向外推进,而不是随意地去触达这些群体,原因在于这是你控制信息的方式。因为每一圈都会假设内圈比自己更了解情况,会跟随内圈的引领。举个例子,如果你我有一家公司,Lenny 和 Lulu,做一家 DTC(直接面向消费者)初创公司。
Lenny: 名字不错。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 是的,我们应该做。
Lenny: 真的应该做。
不能跳过任何一圈
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 如果我们有家公司,想向外界传递一个信息——我们的新产品管用,真的是革命性的,我们的基因是最棒的——但员工自己不是这么说的,那人们就会看员工,心想:“他们才应该知道,他们比我们离这件事更近。如果他们都不兴奋,我们为什么要兴奋?“这样就瓦解了我们想做的所有事情。我的观点是,你不能跳过任何一圈。
Lenny: 太有意思了。我猜离员工越近的人,你花在他们身上的时间就越多,他们天然就更亲近,而且他们的视角和他们分享的内容也更有分量,因为他们离正在发生的事更近。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 而且如果出了问题,他们能造成的伤害也更大。整个光谱是这样的:一端是——他们没有完全认同,不是有效的信息传递者;中间是——他们只是不冷不热,不太确定自己相不相信;另一端是——他们彻底掉队了,你失去了他们,现在他们在外面主动反驳你说的每一句话,甚至试图毁掉公司——这种情况是可能发生的。比如一个早期员工感到不满,这很容易发生,也很容易因为一次传播失误而发生。你向他们描绘了一幅愿景,现在要么愿景变了,要么你传达错了。如果他们觉得受到了诱饵替换(bait and switch),他们会非常愤怒。而你刚刚制造了一个人——这个人极具可信度,跟你有相同的社交圈和职业圈,而且正在试图搞垮你。
同心圆的实操模板
Lenny: 这点说得太好了。如果有人想在内部实践这套方法,心想”好的,我们得为我们的初创公司建这些同心圆”,你会建议他们怎么做?列个清单——这是我们的内圈,这是下一圈的人?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对,拿出一页纸的 Google Doc。我觉得大多数传播问题都可以用一页纸的 Google Doc 解决。打开你的一页 Google Doc,把你的受众列出来,大概五六个就停,因为超过那个范围就是很遥远的”第一世界问题”了。光是拿下五六个内圈就已经够你忙的了。然后你要给他们排序。排序标准是他们对你的成功有多大影响力,以及其他群体赋予他们多少可信度。这样你就有了从内到外的同心圆。
然后针对每一圈,你要思考他们在乎什么——他们的文化敏感带是什么,他们在智识层面活跃在哪里。他们听播客吗?听哪些?他们参加线下会议吗?他们的新闻全部来自 Reddit 吗?如果是,在哪些子版块?他们在 Hacker News 上活跃吗?把这些画出来之后,你就有了:你想触达的人、最能引起他们共鸣的想法和信息,以及触达他们的实际途径。
文化敏感带的实例
Lenny: 这正在变成一个真正可用的模板了。在敏感带这个维度上,能举一些例子吗?在这个语境下,人们的敏感带是什么样的?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我们聊过去年的言论自由立场。很多人在乎第一修正案(First Amendment),在乎保护新闻自由和言论自由。但没多少人在乎某个记者说了 Substack 的坏话。所以有几次我们确实不得不公开回击某个记者说的关于 Substack 的刻薄、不公平或不真实的话。显然,我和我们的直接动机是为公司正名,告诉大家这不是真的。但如果我们只是那样做,不会有多少人在意,也许少数铁杆支持者会在意。确实有人深深关心 Substack,但没有那么多人、也没有那么深地关心,远不及那些在乎自己自由表达能力、或者在乎自己有没有权利在不受太多管控的情况下搭建自有媒体平台的人。
Lenny: 你之前的描述现在想起来了,就是你说的那个”点亮人们的想法”——在你列出的这些人群中,什么能点燃他们?这就很有意思了。所以这套方法是:列一个跨圈层的人员清单,从员工一圈一圈向外延伸,想想什么能点燃他们、他们的文化敏感带是什么,然后想想他们在智识层面把时间花在哪里——他们在听什么,在读什么。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对,就是这样。
Lenny: 太棒了,这个框架真的很酷。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 不过这不简单,挺难的,做的时候每天都要做非常困难的战术决策,但逻辑本身是简单的。
Lenny: 嗯,看起来还挺容易的。好,这部分很棒。还有一个我们没聊过的框架——你有一个关于思想如何传播的数学公式?有印象吗?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 有的。
Lenny: 好,来聊聊那个。
传播的数学公式
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我认为尽可能把传播工作纳入严格的框架是很有用的,因为你本质上衡量的只是”感觉”。在一个充满 OKR、数据和指标的世界里,很难判断传播工作是否做对了。所以我认为,任何时候能建立一个框架都是有益的。这个框架可以算是一个”以目的为导向的传播数学公式”。它的前提是你有一个商业目标——注意是商业目标,不是传播目标,不是”获得多少曝光量”、“引爆传播”之类的,而是”我们要把收入增长 X”,或者”我们要渗透进这个用户群体”。有了商业目标之后,你就需要特定的人做出特定的行为,才能让这个目标实现。比如说,你需要这类特定人群以这样的数量去购买这款运动鞋,你才能达成收入目标。
所以现在你知道了目标人群是谁,以及他们需要采取什么行动。下一步是——他们需要相信什么,才会去采取那个行动?比如他们需要相信:自己的脚现在并不舒服;脚是可以变得更舒服的,而且这会对生活产生积极影响;这款新的运动鞋技术是真实有效的——他们需要相信这些东西。然后就是,他们在知识层面栖息在哪里?你如何把信息传递给他们?也就是——他们听谁的?关注哪些账号?听哪些播客?参加哪些行程?读什么报纸,等等。当你掌握了这些,你就得到了一个方程式:我们需要通过这些渠道向这些人传递这个信息,以促使他们采取这个行动并响应这个号召。这样一来,你至少知道自己在传播上是在推进某件事、达成某个目标,而不是对着虚空说话。
Lenny: 我记得你好像还有类似压力、力、面积这样的概念,这是同一个框架的一部分,还是另一个框架?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 另一个框架。
Lenny: 哦好的,明白了。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对。
Lenny: 那我们也来聊聊这个框架。
压力公式:缩小接触面,集中发力
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我框架还多着呢,Lenny。
Lenny: 我太喜欢了,这正是这档播客的意义所在。来吧。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 这个框架对早期创业公司特别有用,或者说对所有想精益高效运作的人都适用——也就是所有像我们之前聊过的那样的弱者。原理是:如果你减小接触面积,同样的力就能施加更大的压强。压强等于力除以接触面积——这是物理学的基本公式,但在传播中同样成立。如果你减小接触面积,不去试图用所有内容讨好所有人,而是精确瞄准你在对谁说话,把信息磨成一个尖锐的点,直击文化敏感带的靶心——那么在同等的时间、费用或精力投入下,你能产生更大的影响力,施加更大的压强。
所以我认为这是一个连续的光谱:一端是极度精准定向,极端情况就是你成为某一个人的终身伴侣——那是超精准定向的极限;另一端是面向所有人,触达更多的人,但信息更弱、力度更弱。你可以说”世界和平是好的”,几乎没人会反对,但这个信息也不会留在任何人心里,对他们来说没有意义。你必须在这个连续光谱上选择自己的位置。对于大多数创业公司,我会选择偏向少数人那一端——先选定谁会成为你的死忠,然后培育他们,与他们建立真正深入而有意义的关系。要做到这一点,就是减小接触面积,集中施加更大的压强。
Lenny: 感觉你在 Substack 就是这样做的——把焦点对准在网上写作的人。还是说,你怎么看当时在 Substack 的情况?是不是就是”这是我们的一个小而集中的领域,我们对这个人群定向传递信息”?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 目标确实是这样的。实际上这也是我开始花时间经营 Twitter 的原因。这个过程带着一种自我厌恶——Hamish 不喜欢 Twitter 的模式,我们也是,我们会经常聊这个话题,而我待在那个平台上总觉得有点格格不入。在加入 Substack 之前,我只有一个安安静静的账号,几百个关注者,没怎么活跃。但我意识到,我们想要对话的那些人——不管是媒体人还是网络写手——都是 Twitter 的重度用户。所以我决定花些时间,尝试建立一个受众群。后来这个受众群变成了杠杆,不管好坏。我不认为我们应该用 Twitter 粉丝数来衡量一个人,但事实是,如果你粉丝更多,记者和写手就会更认真地对待你。既然我要代表公司传递信息,我觉得如果我影响的人更多,效果会更好。
Lenny: 确实奏效了。回到这个公式,压强等于力除以面积。基本上,要提高信息的有效性,你可以增大”力”——在这个语境下,“力”是什么?是信息的投放量,还是信息的成功程度?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 是你投入的努力的量。也就是你在这场传播活动上花了多少钱,或者你一天只有那么多小时、银行里只有那么多钱。做传播的任何事情,你要么付的是钱,要么付的是时间。有时候你也在消耗信誉——你有一定量的信誉储备,有些时候你不得不说”请相信我”。如果你聚焦,就能更高效地使用这些资源。拿一个简单的广告活动来说,与其花一百万美元触达一百万人,也许你花一百美元去触达最重要的一百个人。把信息精确地针对他们,这样当他们看到你的广告时,真的会点击,真的会转发——回报要好得多。然后你可能最终获得价值一百万美元的回报,因为这些人如此热情,以至于他们自己变成了传播者,甚至不需要你再参与其中。
Lenny: 这个框架真的非常好。你的建议是,越是小的(项目/公司),就越要缩小面积,对吗?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对。
Lenny: 越大的就越随着时间扩大面积?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对。如果你刚刚起步,先找到十个死忠粉,把所有时间都花在他们身上……你不可能一开始就去争取大众的认可。你要从创造一个微小的——目前能想到的最佳比喻是——一个微小的垄断开始。这和在 Substack 上取得成功或在互联网上创造任何东西是一样的。你要选择一个属于你的互联网小角落,然后完完全全地统治它。这个角落越小,你就越能统治它,然后这个角落里的人会变成你的真正信徒、你的死忠粉,他们会向外扩展到下一个圈层,你再从那里继续。但如果你试图同时争取所有人,那就像往大海里滴食用色素,而不是往杯子里滴。
案例分析:Balaji 的《网络国家》
Lenny: 有没有什么想到的、做得特别好的例子?我知道一时半会儿很难想到一个具体例子,但有什么浮现出来的吗?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: Balaji 在他的书《网络状态》(The Network State)上做得非常好,那本书超级成功。他没有走传统的巡回售书、上《纽约时报》那套路线。他走了一条自己的路,我觉得这非常聪明——如果放到这个框架里看,就是他创造了自己的分发渠道。他没有试图在 Harper Collins 的作者阵容的地盘上跟他们竞争,当他创造了自己的分发渠道后,他专注于那些死忠粉和真正的铁粉,这些都是他精心培养的人。他上的是能触达这些人的播客。他不会为了迎合所有人而偏离自己的信息定位。有些人就是永远不会喜欢他,而他完全无所谓。所以他不会为了取悦那些永远不会喜欢他的人而稀释自己的特质,而这对公司来说是一种很强烈的诱惑。
你讨厌别人对你生气,所以你试图去迎合他们,然后你的真正粉丝就失去了热情,因为那个让你如此特别的东西变得索然无味了。所以 Balaji 精心培育他的铁粉,当书发布的时候,他们把他推到了亚马逊排行榜的顶端,因为他们在外面布道、传福音一样地宣传。你当时可能看到了所有那些关于他书的推文。据我所知,他没有付钱给任何人。他没有花钱让人这么做。他只是分享给了这些人,而他们自己就想要表达他们对这个东西的热忱。
Lenny: 这个例子太好了。我知道创始人经常担心过于聚焦会限制他们的市场,永远无法发展成大规模的东西。以你的经验,这通常是不成立的——实际上往往存在比他们想象中大得多的机会?还是说这只是一种好的起步方式,之后再从那里扩展?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 两者都对。如果你在互联网上写作或做事,分母是整个互联网的规模。你不需要占领其中的 80%。如果你只占领 0.01%,那就是一门很好的生意,然后你可以从那里继续发展。一旦你赢下了那个小领域,你就可以决定从那里往外走,而世界很大。现在一切都是数字化的,分母如此巨大,以至于我不会太担心分子的大小。但同样正确的是,如果你一开始就试图对太多人发声,你就不得不把自己的内容稀释到如此程度,以至于永远无法脱颖而出。Lenny,你自己也写过关于如何做到病毒式传播、如何被注意到的内容,其中一点就是要与众不同(be remarkable)。如果你试图迎合那么多人,以至于你不得不变成五十万人品味的平均值,那你就不可能与众不同。
为什么没人关注你的传播内容
Lenny: 我觉得这是一个很好的思考方式,当事情不奏效的时候——当你试图让你的产品获得关注,却没人理你时。感觉其中一个原因就是你铺得太广了。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对,我觉得那可能就是最常见的原因。
Lenny: 也许可以想想怎么诊断你的传播为什么不奏效。这个问题可能太大了,但如果没人关心你试图传播的内容,还可能有什么其他原因?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 你是以公司的身份在做这件事,而不是以个人的身份。这是另一个超级常见的错误——你让自己像一个面目模糊的公司那样说话,因为你觉得既然现在是正经公司了,就该做正经公司该做的事——也就是说你得代表那个 C 类公司发布公告之类的。但你不需要这样做。而且这不起作用,因为人们不信任机构。人们不喜欢公司,或者至少不会对公司产生热情。人们关心的是人,信任和喜欢的人也是人。所以有一种想要扮演企业高管的冲动,但这行不通,无法引起共鸣。一个好的例子是 Flexport 的 Ryan Peterson。他的公司即使变得很大之后,他也从来没有变成那种千篇一律的企业高管。他始终是一个有血有肉的人。有很多人是因为 Ryan 这个人很有趣才开始关注 Flexport 的。并不是他们对物流、货运和航运有什么热情,而是他在做一些有趣的事情。然后他就成了让人们对自己的公司产生兴趣的”人类诱饵”。
Lenny: 完全同意。他发过那条关于港口的疯狂病毒推文,这就是一个非常好的例子。哎呀,我本来想往另一个方向聊的,但也许我们可以聊聊”直接触达”(go direct)这个概念。你非常推崇这个理念,Balaji 也是——说到直接触达的重要性。也许可以谈谈这意味着什么,以及为什么在当下如此重要?
直接触达(Go Direct)
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 嗯,Balaji 比我更加”直接触达”。他觉得我在这方面太温和了,因为我认为与媒体互动仍然有其位置,它只是另一个工具。他主张的是纯粹的、不加过滤的直接触达。但我认为,对于所有人、在所有时候,直接触达都应该是你所做的事情的一部分——不管它是你唯一在做的事,还是你在做其他事情的同时进行,你都不能没有一个直接触达的渠道。那么这具体看起来是什么样的呢?人们一直说”直接触达”,但具体到底长什么样?这意味着创始人或高管——某个非常资深的人——必须以自己的身份说话。第一人称,也许是第一人称复数,以真实的人声说话。你会看到他们犯错,会看到他们展现脆弱,他们必须成为面向社区的代言人。
如果你没有做到这一点,那你就没有直接触达的渠道——即使你有 Twitter 或 Substack 或其他什么平台,如果另一端连着的是一个公司而不是一个人,那就不是直接触达,因为没有直接的连接。第二件事是,尽早开始建设你自己的受众群。你可以同时与媒体互动或做传统的事情。回到聚焦精力、缩小接触面积这一点,对于初创公司,我不会建议同时去运营 Instagram、Twitter、LinkedIn、YouTube 和 TikTok。我会选择那个发言人最擅长的那一个。如果你的发言人是你的 CEO——这是一个不错的默认选择——他们会有一个主导的沟通风格,在这个风格下他们最擅长做真实的自己。这很重要,因为如果所有内容都是别人代笔的,大家一眼就能看出来。
有些 CEO 更擅长写长文,有些更擅长做视频。有些人更适合音频或播客,有些更擅长短内容。Elon Musk 在 Twitter 上的沟通方式,他简直天生就是为 Twitter 而生的。你无法想象他写深思熟虑的长篇博文,那不是他做的事。而 Brian Armstrong 或 Hamish 或 Chris,他们能写出真诚而有效的好博文,这比他们只发推文效果更好。所以选择你的发言人最擅长的那个形式,然后把所有精力投入那个渠道,做到一定规模后再向外扩展。因为如果你同时尝试建立六七个渠道,你什么都做不成。
Lenny: 我觉得这是一个非常重要的观点。我觉得我选择做 Newsletter 其实是一个非常正确的选择。你可能不信,我不是一个喜欢抛头露面的人,我只想躲在电脑后面敲字。Newsletter,尤其是在 COVID 期间,我就想,“我就坐在家里分享东西、编辑、思考,然后发一句’大家好’。“我花了一段时间才走到这一步——“哦,我也许可以做播客了,因为我已经积累了一些信心觉得这些内容是有用的。“所以我非常认同这一点,这也是我告诉很多人的话。选择对你来说最自然的平台就好。也许你喜欢说话,也许你擅长在镜头前表演,也许你只想坐下来打字。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 你说的这点也很好,Lenny,因为这也会随时间变化。你选择了一种方式并不意味着你只能永远做那个。随着时间的推移,你可能会选择不同的方式。我看到过创始人在镜头前变得更加自如——比如做过几次之后就习惯了。知道你可以随时调整的另一个好处是,否则它会成为你开始的障碍。有时候如果你不知道该选哪个,就会陷入瘫痪——要么什么都做,要么什么都不做。凭直觉选一个就好,你不是非得永远绑在上面,以后随时可以换。
创始人必须上 Twitter 吗
Lenny: 你觉得每个创始人都必须上 Twitter 吗?我经常被创始人问到这个问题——我需要上 Twitter 吗?我讨厌 Twitter。你怎么看?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 不一定,但我认为很多创始人确实需要。比如如果你的公司非常使命驱动,Twitter 是你找到与你使命共鸣的人、为你的使命进行论证的途径之一。如果你是使命驱动的,那么你做的事情很可能有些人非常喜欢、有些人非常讨厌,所以你需要站出来为自己的事业战斗。我不是说以一种好斗的、对抗性的方式,而是你必须为自己的东西辩护。所以如果你是使命驱动的,我认为这很重要。如果你的个人魅力是公司招聘的一个重要因素,我也认为这很重要。有些公司,创始人的魅力是人们想去那里工作的重要原因。比如 Palmer Lucky 和 Anduril,他对很多工程师有极强的吸引力,他们就是想跟那个人一起工作。而另一些公司,人们是冲着公司本身去的,创始人是否活跃发声就没那么重要。
LinkedIn 的机会
Lenny: 我最近发现一个有趣的现象——我从 LinkedIn 获得的 Newsletter 流量比 Twitter 还多。你有考虑过这个问题吗?说 LinkedIn 而不是 Twitter,感觉说出来很不对劲,但你怎么看?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 是的,如果你的内容跟职业相关,LinkedIn 会好得多。第一,它不像 Twitter 那样是一个污水坑——在那上面任何事情立刻就会变得有争议,人们在评论区互相争吵。第二,LinkedIn 真的被严重低估了,创始人应该知道这一点,产品经理也应该知道这一点。LinkedIn 被严重低估是因为它有大量的用户注意力,但大部分内容都很差。95% 的内容——这不是什么科学数据——
Lenny: 听起来差不多,差不多。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 这是我粗略的估计。95% 的内容是人们互相祝贺工作周年纪念,或者有人说”我为我的团队做了这件事感到非常骄傲”,然后人们出于友谊、好感或支持去互动。但 LinkedIn 上真正有趣、有用的内容非常稀少。所以你的竞争内容与人们在那上面花费的时间和注意力之间的比率非常优越。
Lenny: 这真的是非常好的建议。我想抛个问题来收集一些例子——你之前提到了那些直接触达做得好的人,Balaji 谈到过 Ryan Peterson 和 Elon,显然都是例子。还有没有其他人让你觉得”看看他们怎么做的,可以作为一个很好的学习范本”?
美妆行业的启示
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我觉得 Mike Solana 用 Pirate Wires 做的事情非常值得关注。这就是一个明显示例,说明创始人活跃在 Twitter 上是完全合理的,因为他自己就是自己的招聘者和发言人。我认为美妆行业其实在这方面走在最前沿。美妆行业在如何使用社交媒体和影响者方面比我们所有人都聪明,因为他们很早就意识到,人们购买化妆品不是为了关注化妆品品牌,而是因为某个名人、影响者或 Kardashian 有某种好看的眼妆效果,他们想要自己的眼睛也变成那样。
早在我们其他人还没开始谈论直接触达的几年前,就已经有美妆公司在营销上零投入,在媒体公关上花最少的精力,把所有资源——回到缩小接触面积——全部投入到培养一小批影响者,让他们传播信息。所以我觉得应该关注美妆公司,关注消费品公司,他们做对了——他们用人的声音说话,通过真实的人来传达,而且速度极快。如果出现一个趋势,当天他们就会搭上——一小时内就已经在跟进了,不像其他行业或更传统的公司,花好几天走审批流程,等流程走完机会已经没了。
Lenny: 有哪些美妆公司可以让人去看看他们是怎么做的?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: NYX,N-Y-X,是 L’Oreal 旗下的一个品牌。据我所知,NYX 是营销支出为零的美妆公司之一,他们所有的资金和精力都花在付费影响者上。他们在用人传递包含行动号召的信息、进而卖爆产品方面,真正做到了以小搏大。产品可能就是一支普通的黑色眼线笔,你能想象到的最无差异化的产品,但就是那一支眼线笔会在全国各地的 CBS 卖断货好几周,就因为他们在社交媒体上通过一个真实的人做对了某件事。
为什么直接触达如此重要
Lenny: 关于直接触达这个概念,还有几个问题。我不知道你是否具体谈过为什么这很重要,因为我觉得我们经常讨论这个话题,但人们可能没有意识到为什么现在这么多人觉得它如此重要。Balaji 和其他创始人背后的动机是什么?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 直接触达之所以重要,有两个原因——进攻和防守。防守方面,还是要回到弱者的心态、那种反叛者的思维。如果你在做一件与众不同、逆流而上的事情,人们会攻击你。不是所有人都会喜欢。而关键就在于,不需要所有人都喜欢,但你需要一种为自己辩护的方式,因为你没有那些大机构、大权力结构替你撑腰——因为你是在逆流而行。所以如果你想为自己挺身而出,只有一条路,就是你自己来。因此要建立受众、建立渠道,而且你必须提前铺垫市场。所谓铺垫市场,我的意思是,如果你是一家上市公司,你通过让市场习惯你传递信息的方式来铺垫他们。
如果你是一家小型创业公司或创始人,你通过让受众了解你通常的沟通方式来铺垫市场,这样当你做某件事时,它不会显得突兀。如果你从不发帖,然后突然开始发帖,人们会觉得你是不是出了什么状况,发生了什么事?他们会去揣测。所以你必须已经建立了节奏和关系,这样当你受到攻击、需要动用这些资源时,你可以做到——这就是防守。进攻方面是,如果你在做一件新的事情,如果你是有使命驱动的,如果你做的事情真正独特和创新,没有其他人能比你讲得更好。即使世上最友好、最同情你的记者也无法比你讲得更好,因为他们对你的事情的理解不如你深,所以这个责任就只能落在你身上。
如何开始构建受众
Lenny: 如果有听众说,“好的,我完全同意,是时候开始做了。” 你建议他们接下来怎么迈出第一步,开始构建受众、实现直接触达?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 第一步是评估你擅长什么、喜欢什么。这决定了你选择哪种媒介——是喜欢长文写作,还是喜欢播客,还是其他形式?第二步是在你选择的渠道上建立账号。如果你喜欢长文写作,那你需要选择是做 Substack、Medium 还是其他什么?这个其实有一个客观上正确的答案。如果你做短视频,你要选择投入 Instagram 还是 TikTok,把它搭建起来。然后开始构建受众。如果你真正从零开始,准备好一些内容储备。抱歉,不是人才储备,是内容储备。准备好,就像你上线一个 Substack 一样。
如果你要上线一个 Substack,你会提前准备一两周的文章储备,这样一开张就能建立起很强的势头。不同的社交网络实际上也在算法层面偏好你一上来就强势输出、保持规律的情况。比如 TikTok,如果你从零粉丝开始,你需要准备一两周扎实的素材放在储备里,然后一条接一条地发——因为算法在你刚开始时会特别照顾你,它希望你继续下去,所以你要尽可能充分利用这一点。第二步就是为上线做好准备。不要发一篇然后等,要准备好一堆内容,然后砰砰砰连发。第三步是制定持续的内容策略——你知道你要触达谁,知道他们在乎什么。
所以你要规划,“我以什么节奏和他们沟通。我怎么做社区管理、回复大家,以及我在哪些时候做公告。“然后你进入一种节奏,因为这和做 Newsletter 的增长是一样的。规律性和一致性是增长的重要因素。构建受众也是如此。人们常犯的一个错误是,偶尔试图制造一条爆款,而不是保持持续输出。然后有些帖子自然会比其他的表现好,但正确的做法就是这样。我自己并没有做到这一点。我不是好榜样,因为我对上 Twitter 充满自我厌恶——我会消失一两周什么都不发,然后在一天里发一堆帖子。这不是最佳实践,不是你应该做的方式。理想情况下,你每天都在那里说点什么,然后随时间累积。
Lenny: 我其实就是一个专注于持续输出非病毒式内容的例子,而且效果很好。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 效果确实很好。
Lenny: 效果很好。到目前为止效果很好。但观察不同人的做法很有意思——有些人试图让每条推文、每篇帖子都成为爆款,这其实很难。而且大家也看得出来你只是在试图制造某个病毒式传播的东西,没人在乎。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 而且当你纯粹为了爆款而制造爆款、没有真正要表达的信息时,这非常明显。比如那种截图 iPhone 六位数安全码然后说”Apple 有史以来最好的功能”的帖子。最初有几个人这么做了,现在我已经看到大概几十次了。而且这甚至不能帮你涨粉,因为这不是那种让人觉得”只有这个人能持续给我提供这类内容”的东西。如果你想靠一个一次性的笑话涨粉,那得是一个极其好笑的一次性笑话,让人觉得”这个人会持续让我觉得有趣”。但这类爆款诱饵,我认为其实并没有那么有效。
闪电问答
Lenny: 而且我还发现,如果某条内容真的爆了,不管正确的说法是什么,然后生活继续,什么都不会有太大改变——那只是一次单独的事件,然后你还得一次又一次地做。很多人没有意识到这一点,觉得”哦,我爆了一次,我的人生就好了。“大多数情况下什么都不会真正改变,你得一次又一次地做。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我觉得这确实是事实。我注意到关于你的受众的一点,Lenny,就是你的受众是对的那批人。是在你的工作中找到价值的人,他们来对了地方,形成了匹配。有时候在纯粹为了涨粉或为了爆款而做的过程中,你最终会得到一个错配的受众。你发了一条爆火的仓鼠推文,然后他们全来了期待仓鼠内容,但他们不会和你互动,你也没有给他们带来价值。只是让数字变大而已,这并没有太大意义。这方面的一个例子是,Twitter 上有大量关于如何纯粹为了增长而增长的帖子。
里面全是那种泛泛的建议,比如确保你把十条要点列出来。但内容永远是那种空洞的废话——重视你的人际关系、为自己留出时间之类的。这些东西并没有在丰富人们的生活,它们获得大量点赞,但那是来自网上随机用户的低价值点赞。我认为他们并没有在深化与有价值受众之间的关系,也没有真正赢得同行的尊重和钦佩。所以我认为重要的是,要考虑人们在追求增长的过程中做出了哪些取舍。
Lenny: 好了,说到这里,我们进入激动人心的闪电问答环节。我准备了五个问题。准备好了吗?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 准备好了。
Lenny: 第一个问题。好的,你最常推荐给别人的两三本书是什么?
闪电问答:推荐与分享
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我推荐《Gates of Fire》(《火之门》),这本书出自海军陆战队司令的阅读书单,常年位列其上。它讲的是 Thermopylae(温泉关)之战,就是那三百斯巴达人的故事,但它呈现了完整的背景。深入读进去,你会发现它讲的是领导力、勇气和创造力,而且写得非常好,所以我经常推荐这本书。
Lenny: 最近最喜欢的电影或电视剧是什么?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我和全世界所有人一样,在看《The Last of Us》(《最后生还者》)。我既是出于娱乐在看,也是出于工作在看,因为观察这个剧集如何带动电子游戏的销量非常有趣——你可以借此让整体销售大于各部分之和。所以我一直在非常仔细地观察这一点。
Lenny: 有意思。我们现在可以搞个饮酒游戏了——每次有人说”Last of Us”就喝一杯,因为这个词开始频繁出现了,大家尽情享用吧。你最喜欢问别人的面试问题是什么?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我也喜欢问别人最近在读什么。这是一个获取好书推荐的好方法,也能看出他们不工作的时候脑子里在想什么。
Lenny: 日常使用中最喜欢的 SaaS 产品是什么?如果最近发现了什么新颖有趣的东西,额外加分。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 我不确定这算不算新颖——我几乎用 Notion 处理所有事情,而且我很喜欢他们新加入的 AI 功能。我最近也在用 Lex,这是 Nathan Baschez 的创业项目,是一个 AI 写作编辑器,你们可能见过。我在想有没有什么是我在用但别人不怎么用的。我觉得在这方面我不太有原创性。我大量使用 Microsoft Excel,我觉得这可能有点争议性。
Lenny: 这确实,哇,挺酷的,但我理解。当你知道自己在做严肃的工作时,就必须加速。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对,没错。
Lenny: 最后一个问题,给想要为产品获得关注的人最好的建议是什么?一句话带走 tip。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 把它免费送给对的人。如果你能筛选出那些会爱上这个产品的人,去看那个韦恩图——一方面是会对这个产品着迷的人,另一方面是在你想触达的其他人群中有大量粉丝的人,凡是落在这个韦恩图交集里的人,就把你的产品免费铺给他们。
结语
Lenny: 太棒了。Lulu,我想这次对话会促使更多人去直接触达、承担风险、传播想法。谢谢你来到这里。最后两个问题——大家想了解更多或联系你的话,在哪里可以找到你?听众怎样能帮到你?
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 大家可以在 getflack.com 找到我,那是我写下自己想法的地方,希望今后会比过去更新得更频繁一些。如果他们对这些内容感兴趣,可以去那里看看。至于听众如何帮到我——给我反馈。我是在实践中学习。我认为当今世上没有谁是在这个疯狂环境中做传播的专家。我们都是在摸着石头过河,而你们的听众以各种不同的方式经历过这些。我希望如果他们有新的想法、反馈或反对意见,可以通过那个网站或 Twitter 发邮件告诉我他们的看法。
Lenny: 太好了,是 getflack.com。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 对。
Lenny: 我们会在节目笔记里附上链接。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 谢谢。
Lenny: Lulu,谢谢你来和我们分享你的智慧。
Lulu Cheng Meservey: 谢谢你,Lenny,非常感谢。
Lenny: 非常感谢大家的收听。如果你觉得这期节目有价值,可以在 Apple Podcast、Spotify 或你最喜欢的播客应用上订阅。也请考虑给我们评分或留下评论,因为这真的能帮助其他听众找到这个播客。你可以在 lennyspodcast.com 找到所有往期节目或了解更多关于这个节目的信息。下期再见。
术语表
| 原文 | 中文 |
|---|---|
| Anduril | Anduril(国防科技公司,首次出现) |
| API | 接口(此处喻指连接两者兴趣的桥梁,保留原文) |
| bait and switch | 诱饵替换(先承诺后变卦) |
| Balaji | Balaji(保留原文,指 Balaji Srinivasan) |
| be remarkable | 与众不同 |
| Bill Bishop | Bill Bishop(Substack 一号作者,保留原文) |
| binders of women | ”装满女性的活页夹”(2012年美国总统辩论中的知名失言) |
| centers of gravity | 重心节点 |
| Chris | Chris(Substack 联合创始人 Chris Best,首次出现) |
| comms | 传播(communications 的简称) |
| concentric circles | 同心圆 |
| cultural erogenous zones | 文化敏感带 |
| delivery mechanisms | 传播机制 |
| diehards | 死忠粉 |
| DTC (Direct-to-Consumer) | DTC(直接面向消费者) |
| First Amendment | 第一修正案 |
| Flack | Flack(Lulu 的 Newsletter 名称,保留原文) |
| Flexport | Flexport(物流公司,保留原文) |
| food coloring in the ocean vs. in a cup | 大海里滴食用色素 vs. 杯子里滴食用色素 |
| Gates of Fire | 《火之门》(关于温泉关之战的历史小说) |
| gateway drug | 诱饵(此处喻指让人产生兴趣的入口) |
| ghost-writing | 代笔 |
| go direct | 直接触达 |
| Hamish | Hamish(Substack 联合创始人 Hamish McKenzie,首次出现) |
| Harper Collins | Harper Collins(出版公司,保留原文) |
| Jerraj | Jerraj(首次出现) |
| K-12 education | K-12 教育(美国从幼儿园到十二年级的基础教育) |
| Kamala Harris | Kamala Harris(美国政治人物,保留原文) |
| Kardashian | Kardashian(首次出现) |
| Lex | Lex(AI 写作编辑器产品名,保留原文) |
| meme | 迷因 |
| Mike Solana | Mike Solana(首次出现) |
| milk toast | 索然无味(原文 milk toast,意指平淡无奇、缺乏特色) |
| mistakes of commission | 作为的错误(主动做了某事而犯的错) |
| mistakes of omission | 不作为的错误(因没有做某事而犯的错) |
| Mitt Romney | 米特·罗姆尼 |
| Nathan Baschez | Nathan Baschez(首次出现) |
| NYX | NYX(美妆品牌,首次出现) |
| out punch one’s weight | 以小搏大(实力超出自身量级的表现) |
| Palmer Lucky | Palmer Lucky(Anduril 创始人,首次出现) |
| pay it forward | 善意传递 |
| Pirate Wires | Pirate Wires(媒体品牌,首次出现) |
| power users | 核心用户 |
| put the pill in cheese | 把药丸藏在奶酪里(用奶酪包裹药丸,喻指把核心信息包裹在吸引人的外壳中) |
| recommendations | recommendations(推荐功能,指 Substack 的推荐功能) |
| Ryan Peterson | Ryan Peterson(Flexport 创始人,保留原文) |
| social proof | 社交证明 |
| The Last of Us | 《最后生还者》 |
| The Network State | 《网络状态》(保留原文书名) |
| Thermopylae | 温泉关 |
| true believers | 真正信徒 |
| true fans / truth fans | 铁粉 |
| underdog | 弱者(处于劣势的一方) |
| 摸着石头过河 | crossing the river by feeling the stones(此处原文为英文习语,其中文对应表达即为”摸着石头过河”) |
此文档由 AI 分片翻译(translate_long_document)